You may well have found good evidence backing your claim, but I categorically refuse to look at anything that could potentially start to undermine my irrational beliefs. Instead, I will retreat further into my shell by only recognizing Y as either a vowel or semi-vowel. The concept of Y as a consonant be banished!

Call me obstinate, call me an ideologue, call me an obstinate ideologue, or call me a twat. You probably wouldn't be too far off with any of these characterizations, but one thing is for sure, you Y-Consonanters have had your day!

You can have fate on your side, but I have just stumbled upon this conclusive proof that Y is in fact a consonant: https://www.codewars.com/kata/5a19226646d843de9000007d

Read it and weep, fellow Y consonant users have coalesced and produced this brilliant counter kata. I have also decided that the solution to this issue is for me to avoid all suspicious usage of Y as a "vowel" henceforth. I think you will find this response adequate in this regard, and I'm quite enjoying being forced to re-evaluate the words I use. Yet, a single perfect tear leaves its mark upon mine face as I see how beautiful the english language can be without this fake vowel. Perhaps this issue should be taken to a higher judicial level, and all Y vowel words must be purged from our lexicons. I shall not miss them.

Julia translation

Valiant you may be, but I'm afaid your cause is lost as I have destiny on my side seeing as it can be no coincidence that VICTORYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!! is spelled with a vowel Y

Incredible thank you. Ultimately this is just ignorance of english on full display, but it's also true that we simply are not taught y as a vowel, so it's hard to shake that ingrained knowledge.

Which is quite odd, why is y simply put in the consonant box? Why is this potentially a regional thing within england, if there are actually english teachers aware of this? Why is english in general so... English?

Well, that's a problem for the linguists and english students. I'm either going to become "that guy" and start asking people to list all the vowels to say ACTUALLY, or I'll double down to spite the welsh specifically (despite quite liking wales).

I'm doubling down. You yanks will never understand the rich culture that you abandoned, and we're never going forgive the loss of all that tea. To arms!

@196alex, you've crossed an over zealous English teacher, so you've found yourself on the business end of a pedant bomb. Hunker down...

English/Americans are gonna be here going "why is y a vowel"

I'm not sure you should lump Americans into this group... I've never had any qualms thinking of Y as a vowel, and actually have a harder time seeing it as a consonant. Probably because, even using the structural definition (i.e where the Y falls in a word), most occurences in English are categorized as vowels (I'm unaware of a definition which extends beyond mere assertion that has most English occurences of Y being categorized as a consonant).

However, let's be honest, nobody cares about that dross... It's come down to a battle of whose schoolhouse rote will win the day. So, don't give up, and fight to the death we shall! Arbitrary definitions must be defended!

It is sometimes a vowel, and mostly a consonant.

Trying to not look through the keyhole of one specific language, a serious, honest question: out of all distinct languages which recognize the letter Y, how many of them considers it as a vowel, how many as a consonant, and how many as "it depends"? Has anyone any idea here?

You still wanna stand on your perspective, that's fine. Let's just accept that both have some valid point and should stop debating about this. Different people comes from different cultures.

No, we must argue about this irrelevance until the end of time itself. Y is never a vowel. You're all wrong.

Just kidding, it might not have come across overly well but I did actually read that comment counting the number of "y-vowels". It's annoyingly correct ofc, if you think about the phonology then yes Y is technically a vowel in many english words.

That doesn't mean I have to accept the technical correctness of it all, and certainly in the context of "What are the vowels in english?" If you said Y then most people will just laugh at you. And my comment saying that people will continue to complain is just an extension of that. I'm not wrong am I? English/Americans are gonna be here going "why is y a vowel" until either the kata changes or the author goes nuclear and decides to define every letter as a vowel or something. It's just a bit weird, all in all.

I can guarantee you that every Polish person gets utterly confused when Y is not considered a vowel in a kata. For such user, Y is a vowel, always, period.

I also dont understand what exactly is the problem here. Y being a vowel or not is ambiguous and not well defined in general. Task clearly, unambiguously specifies this, comforming to one of possible, well known interpretations. What is the problem then?

The hordes of complaints will only continue to rise mark my words.

Meanwhile you just proved that y can be a vowel by your Y use count there. You just done the opposite of rising mark of your words.

You still wanna stand on your perspective, that's fine. Let's just accept that both have some valid point and should stop debating about this. Different people comes from different cultures.

In french, Y is a vowel. Meanwhile based on what you said, english mostly doesn't consider it as one. Maybe the author comes from french or countries that have similar opinion about Y being a vowel? We never know. Codewars is not only for english users after all.

Counts from your quote:

Y as vowel = 3

Y as consonant (semi-vowel) = 1

Y as letter = 1

Hilarious response actually, top kek. Still utterly redundant in real life ofc, but this is one of those things which people would pull out as a "do you know" fact for sure. I still reject this formal definition of a vowel, since I still stand by the simple statement that y is not mostly a vowel. Kids are not taught aeiouy, it's aeiou and sometimes y. Unless you're welsh. And by that logic, I still complain that we should not be making kata with y defined as a vowel.

The evidence undelying your assertion is lacking.

I provided not just a game show tile, but THE origin of english culture and the FORMAL definition of vowels and consonants for at least two generations of british inbreeds such as myself. This revisionist definition based on phonology will not stand the test of countdown. The kata should be changed, and I have not changed my opinion on that. The hordes of complaints will only continue to rise mark my words.

While your English credentials and provided reference are surely impeccable, what classifies Y alternately as a vowel and a consonant here is likely not a matter of English or game shows, rather a matter of phonology (i.e. how the sound is produced in your mouth). Basically, consonants show significant restriction of airflow by the tongue while vowels allow for free flowing airflow. In this light, classifying Y as a consonant could be seen as a bit dubious, since it generally is either a vowel or a semi-vowel.

Small sample, but just for fun...

Are we speaking english here? What do you mean how do I know it's sometimes a vowel and mostly a consonant? I'm english back to the damn romans invading britain, I barely speak a second language because I decided to learn german as a hobby. I might not be an english student, but I'm reasonably familiar with english as a language and the usage of letters. For example, in countdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOYv1qicEcc - Ignoring the 7 million to 1 odds of her spelling her name, note the Y comes from the consonants?

Counts from your quote:

Y as vowel = 3

Y as consonant (semi-vowel) = 1

Y as letter = 1

The evidence undelying your assertion is lacking.

1. reasonably familiar with english as a language
2. a game show tile

How do you know?

Are we speaking english here? What do you mean how do I know it's sometimes a vowel and mostly a consonant? I'm english back to the damn romans invading britain, I barely speak a second language because I decided to learn german as a hobby. I might not be an english student, but I'm reasonably familiar with english as a language and the usage of letters. For example, in countdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOYv1qicEcc - Ignoring the 7 million to 1 odds of her spelling her name, note the Y comes from the consonants?

It is sometimes a vowel, and mostly a consonant.

How do you know?